[SOLVED] How are movies stored on Hard drive??

[CAD]

Now the price of Hard drives is comparable to DVDs - I have decided to store my collection on Hard drive.
I am still deciding how I am going to store it.

eg Drives per Genre, All movies in one directory, subdirectories per Genere etc etc.
( I am interested in knowing how others store their media on Hard drives and how they then catalog them in PVD).


This is response from Ivek23 in thread - http://www.videodb.info/forum_en/index.php?topic=1981.0
With me, the media database
Code:
to an external hard disk arranged by category.
Example:
    Action
    Comedy
    Western
and
     Rest..

In PVD, I have the custom section done custom field Movie Categories and manually confirmed one of the categories of films that I have an external disk.
Arrangements may also be in the File Information.

[CAD]

With me, the media database
Code:
to an external hard disk arranged by category.
Example:
    Action
    Comedy
    Western
and
     Rest..

In PVD, I have the custom section done custom field Movie Categories and manually confirmed one of the categories of films that I have an external disk.
Arrangements may also be in the File Information.

OK I do similar with DVD media. I don't import the category from imdb and use this as a custom field.
My movies are then stored in boxes alphabetically by Comedy, Sci Fi etc.

But when storing media on HD, I am streaming to xbox, so I think this way may not work.
I am thinking of having movies in one directory and a total reliance on PVD for managing them.

[Ivek23]

OK, now I see what you wanted to ask.

But when storing media on HD, I am streaming to xbox, so I think this way may not work.
I am thinking of having movies in one directory and a total reliance on PVD for managing them.

Sorry, this (xbox) unfortunately I have no experiences.

[patch]

I am interested in knowing how others store their media on Hard drives and how they then catalog them in PVD

Very simple on the hard disks. If you are any thing like me your collection will grow out of what ever storage you start with.
So I use a simple and unambiguous initial classification on my hard disk (some of which span more than one disk)
Animated movie
HD movie
Movie (ie standard def none animated)
TV series

All real cataloging, searching, and movie playing is done via PVD, so the hard disk structure becomes less relevant on a day to day basis.

[CAD]

Very simple on the hard disks. If you are any thing like me your collection will grow out of what ever storage you start with.
So I use a simple and unambiguous initial classification on my hard disk (some of which span more than one disk)
Animated movie
HD movie
Movie (ie standard def none animated)
TV series

Thanks patch - so you create sub directories for each genre? or Disk per Genre?

I am using scan /folders for changed paths to add new media.
How does this affect the database if you have swapped hard drives??

Sorry, this (xbox) unfortunately I have no experiences.

xbmc will recurse subdirectories, and I can sort on genre /watched /not watched etc.
So it makes no difference to the systems that I use, whether they are laid out in flat format or sub-directories.
But it matters to my brain when I look at the folders and I see a flat format.
So I wonder if there are any advantages to putting them into sub-directories? (apart from appeasing my brain)  or leaving them in flat format.

When disk is full - put in a new disk. How does this affect adding and removing movies from PVD?

[patch]

Thanks patch - so you create sub directories for each genre? or Disk per Genre?

I have no sub-directories for genre, just basic media type (high def movie, low def movie, TV show).

I am using scan /folders for changed paths to add new media.
How does this affect the database if you have swapped hard drives??

It work really well. Update file path mostly gets it right.
The exceptions being if a movie has same name as a TV episode or I have two copies of a movie
I both cases I add the movie with new movie master, after which update file path seams to work if required.
Actually I tried putting TV series in PVD  but have stopped as adding new episodes involved more work than I could see benefit.

So it makes no difference to the systems that I use, whether they are laid out in flat format or sub-directories.
But it matters to my brain when I look at the folders and I see a flat format.
So I wonder if there are any advantages to putting them into sub-directories? (apart from appeasing my brain)   or leaving them in flat format.

I leave it flat as I can as it simplifies my life.
The only advantage of having sub directories on the file server is if you may want to copy or move a group of files to another location.
I do however have a directory for each movie as some of my movies use more than one file (sub titles, disc 1,2, etc), so all movies get a sub directory (I like uniformity).
I do give TV series a directory structure as they come in series which are conveniently selected as a group at times.
I use ..."TV Series/"<series name>/s<series number>/ files.

When disk is full - put in a new disk. How does this affect adding and removing movies from PVD?

If I can move a directory to another disk I do.
When a directory fills a disk I start another on a new disk (eg "Movie HD 2")

[buah]

I rely on IDs. As you can see in picture attached, I adopted a convention in folder naming:
[ID]. [Title] - [Original Title] [(Year)] [[Source]], so it can match IMDb naming convention and PVD regexs.

All other manipulations are let to PVD. I adopted PVD Title formatting similar to folder naming: %N. %T (%Y) (see picture attached). After picking a movie in PVD by genre, or whatever other criteria, I find a movie stored on a HDD by its ID.

Every HDD should have its label, i.e. "4235-5715", meaning movies with those IDs are stored on it.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[patch]

I rely on IDs. As you can see in picture attached, I adopted a convention in folder naming:
[ID]. [Title] - [Original Title] [(Year)] [[Source]], so it can match IMDb naming convention and PVD regexs.

All other manipulations are let to PVD. I adopted PVD Title formatting similar to folder naming: %N. %T (%Y) (see picture attached). After picking a movie in PVD by genre, or whatever other criteria, I find a movie stored on a HDD by its ID.

Every HDD should have its label, i.e. "4235-5715", meaning movies with those IDs are stored on it.

Interesting
I hide the data you display most predominately (PVD id). I thought PVD just uses the file name when scanning for changed paths. I was in favor of appending the imdb id to the folder name but that would have to wait till PVD could do it for me.

I play movies by clicking on the play button in PVD. It then uses the recorded path to find the movie for me.

Movie folders are mostly named [Title] [(Year)] but I get slack at times as I know I'm rarely going to access the movie directly via this method.

Hard disks do have top level directories identifying what is contained within them (eg "Video - HD 2" or "Video - TV Series")

[buah]

I set up PVD to automatically assign next highest ID which has to be identical to a folder's name ID. Folder IDs are not recognized by PVD, but they serve to sort order of movies (folders) in Regex scanner to be processed. Processing folders scanned this way, PVD ID=Folder ID is achieved.

I still do not play movies from PVD, because I earlier set up certain playlists ("American & Europian Classics", "Contemporary Asian", etc...). I tried once to play a movie by playing its playlist, but PVD purged playlist and played that movie. Till today I didn't exam this option enough to use it, although I intend to.

[rick.ca]

So I use a simple and unambiguous initial classification on my hard disk

I think this is the most important consideration. Media on a HDD should only need to be classified according the method by which it's added/handled/managed. If what you might consider two different media types are added to the collection by using exactly the same work flow, then classifying them differently just makes for unnecessary work and increases the chance of error. For most people, the handling of movies and series are different enough it makes sense to store them in different folders. Same for home video, and maybe some would want downloaded media kept separate from ripped. In other words, use the simplest scheme necessary for your work flow circumstances, and otherwise let PVD (and whatever other software you might want to use) handle the database aspects of managing the collection.

This doesn't really add anything to the idea of keeping it simple, but most certainly avoid any ambiguity. I don't see any value in organizing media by genre. Movies usually belong to more than one genre, so it's ambiguous no matter what you do. Even if you create your own scheme where each movie only belongs to one genre, you're not always going to know which one a movie belongs to until after you've added it to the HDD and the database and downloaded the meta data (which, presumably, includes the genre).

If you really want the media to be somehow classified in the file system—perhaps so you can relate to it better when using a file manager—I would advise putting this off until PVD has the ability to rename file pathnames from the database (e.g., \Movies\[Classification]\[Title] ([Year].[Ext] ). Using such a facility would allow you to maintain such a file structure so it's perfectly consistent with the meta recorded in the database (e.g., if it's [class] movie, you could be sure to find it in your [class] folder).

[patch]

I still do not play movies from PVD, because I earlier set up certain playlists ("American & Europian Classics", "Contemporary Asian", etc...). I tried once to play a movie by playing its playlist, but PVD purged playlist and played that movie. Till today I didn't exam this option enough to use it, although I intend to.

This explains our different approaches.
If you use PVD to find an index which is then manually used to find the movie then it makes perfect sense to display it prominently. Functionally there being no real difference between doing the look up on a shelf or on a computers filing system.

Now you are putting your movies on a computer accessible hard disk I suspect you would benefit from getting PVD to doing the look up.
My understanding of play lists is:
If your movie is on a single file-> PVD passes the file reference (absolute path with file name) directly to your windows default player for that file type.
If your movie spans more than one file (as defined by what is stored in the path variable) -> PVD creates a temporary play list containing all the absolute references in the path field and passes that to the windows default play list player.

So to play a movie contained on one file you need to:
1) Set the windows file association for that file type (so when you double click on the movie in windows explorer it plays).
2) Ensure the path variable is set correctly for the movie. This should be done automatically if you use PVD file scanner to add movies on your hard disk. If you access the movies from multiple computers you may need to set up the path mapping to convert between local and network addresses.

To play a movie on more than one file (multiple file references are stored in the path variable) you need to
1) Set up the file association between the play list type PVD is configured to use.
2) Ensure the path variable is set correctly for the movie (same as above).

Edit added content to wiki

[buah]

Thanks for the reply patch and adding content to wiki.

If you use PVD to find an index which is then manually used to find the movie then it makes perfect sense to display it prominently. Functionally there being no real difference between doing the look up on a shelf or on a computers filing system.

I think that, except automatic playing, any other action has to be taken "manually" - outside of PVD, i.e. renaming, copying, burning, moving, deleting, etc.

Maybe it would be a good idea for PVD to has further options:

- Open containing folder.
- Creating playlists.
- If not creating, than possiblity to assign a path of a predetermined playlists to a movie.
- Not purging predetermined playlists made outside of it.

What do you think about it?

[patch]

Maybe it would be a good idea for PVD to has further options:

- Open containing folder.
- Creating playlists.
- If not creating, than possiblity to assign a path of a predetermined playlists to a movie.

It does
Right click on a movie in the left hand list in PVD, then select "Open containing folder" from the menu.
It also creates the required play list when you play a multi-file movie containing the paths to the individual component files (but I'm not sure if that is what you meant).

[rick.ca]

Maybe it would be a good idea for PVD to has further options:
- Open containing folder.

Already exists.

- Creating playlists.

For what purpose?

- If not creating, than possiblity to assign a path of a predetermined playlists to a movie.

Already possible.

- Not purging predetermined playlists made outside of it.

How, exactly, does PVD "purge" a playlist?

[buah]

It does
Right click on a movie in the left hand list in PVD, then select "Open containing folder" from the menu.

Already exists.

Wow! Thank you both, especially to you patch for quick reference where the option was! That was a clear example of how I was, and I am a slave of habits and routine. I totally overlooked this great option. On the other hand, PVD has so many features and possibilities, so 5 months of using it simply wasn't enough to learn them all, wasn't it?

It also creates the required play list when you play a multi-file movie containing the paths to the individual component files (but I'm not sure if that is what you meant).

I meant, playlist consisted of different movies in different folders, not of multiple files of a movie.

For what purpose?

In purpose to add different movies to playlist from within PVD in order to play whole playlist directly from PVD? It's not handy for me to load different playilsts from within the player, then to look which movie from it to watch.

Already possible.

Still didn't discover how to play a playlist consisted of diferent movies in different folders from within PVD?

How, exactly, does PVD "purge" a playlist?

For example, I have a movie Thirst (Bakjwi), that I set it to belong to a playlist "Contemporary Korean and Asian Movies" (custom made field, don't know how to do it other way). I also have "Contemporary Korean and Asian Movies.asx" file stored on my computer and it is loade in my GOM Player whenever I open it. When I click "play" in PVD, that unloads  (purge) playlist (asx file) in my GOM player, and now in playlist is only Thirst. In PVD Preferences I set asx as a playlist type to use when playing multiple video files.

Patch,
I'll still rely on IDs, because they can tell you a lot of things, by not using filters and different searches (how many of them you have, which is more recently added, on which external HDD on a shelf they are, etc...)

[rick.ca]

When I click "play" in PVD, that unloads  (purge) playlist (asx file) in my GOM player, and now in playlist is only Thirst.

If you have a playlist loaded in your player, why would you click "play" in PVD? If you issue the command to play one movie, your player should abandon the current playlist and do so.

If you want to be able to launch multiple movie playlists from PVD, you'll have to create a "movie" record for each of them and enter the playlist in File path. Your player should play them in whatever order they occur in the playlist.

This practice is too unusual to expect any further accommodation in PVD. Surely most users are happy either using PVD to launch items one at a time (and I wonder why you're not grouping or filtering by your "playlist" field and doing that) or using a player that can use the data from PVD to make a selection of items to play.

I'll still rely on IDs, because they can tell you a lot of things, by not using filters and different searches (how many of them you have, which is more recently added, on which external HDD on a shelf they are, etc...)

This seems like a lot of work for information that can/should be in the database anyway. And doesn't it make you unnecessarily dependent on PVD to browse for and find the movie on any particular HDD? You can search for it, of course, but don't you miss a simple alphabetic list by title?

[buah]

If you have a playlist loaded in your player, why would you click "play" in PVD?

Because in PVD I decide which one is the next from that playlist to be seen (according to genre, rating, director, cast, reviews, etc...)?

If you want to be able to launch multiple movie playlists from PVD

Thanks for the tip.

This practice is too unusual to expect any further accommodation in PVD. Surely most users are happy

I guess so. Ideas regarding playlists and PVD probably wouldn't occur to me, too, if I hadn't found an option about them in PVD.

(and I wonder why you're not grouping or filtering by your "playlist" field and doing that)

You're right, that's exactly what I do. Except clicking on a "Play" buton.

or using a player that can use the data from PVD to make a selection of items to play.

It'll probably happen one day, and I'll feel free then to ask for a suggestion. In my step-by-step "strategy" of settling with PVD as an ultimate movie collection handler, playing files is among final steps.

This seems like a lot of work for information that can/should be in the database anyway.

It might looks like that, but actually it's not, at least for me. Regex compliant application for mass renaming folders and files (Rename Master) in order to assign IDs то folder names, and regex compliant movie collection software (PVD ) in order to automatically assign IDs to a corresponding database entries.

And doesn't it make you unnecessarily dependent on PVD to browse for and find the movie on any particular HDD?

It makes me experience PVD as "all-in-one" video files handler. It's adjustable enough to accommodate to my needs and ideas, and when it's not, it's more than easy for me to accommodate to PVD. According to this, I still haven't found faster way to reach a video file on HDD, especially now I'm aware of "Open containing folder" option. Windows search is slow, I don't need another (desktop search) application installed, and now, scrolling in Windows Explorer to reach the title isn't more convenient than typing specific part of the Title in PVD's search bar, and using context menu then?

You can search for it, of course, but don't you miss a simple alphabetic list by title?

I've been collecting and cataloging movies on computers for nine years now. I think I tried every possible way of grouping and storing movies. Back then, I had 15GB HDD. What to store on it and by which order? Today I have several TBs of HDDs. But, it wouldn't be convenient for me to have movies starting with "A"s on different HDDs, for instance.
That's when I decided to rely on IDs. Aren't movies, for example, just IDs on IMDb, too?

After all, we may think we're individuals, but aren't we all just some IDs in our countries databases?

Exchanging experiences is very significant, so please if any of you have some thoughts about this, post them. I'm sure it'll help us all to make PVD better for us in a ways we maybe weren't aware of.

[rick.ca]

Exchanging experiences is very significant, so please if any of you have some thoughts about this, post them. I'm sure it'll help us all to make PVD better for us in a ways we maybe weren't aware of.

And I hope you understand that's why I'm asking questions. I'm not asking to challenge you on your personal choices. I really don't care. I'm asking so I can understand your routine and it's purpose. Out of that might come some some ideas of improvements that might be made to the program or suggestions on how you (or anyone else reading this) might do things differently. But you still haven't answered my questions...

You're right, that's exactly what I do. Except clicking on a "Play" buton.

Why not? Yes, we're back were we started. Clicking Play will displace the playlist in you player (I assume), and you don't want it to do that. But why do you need that if you have the playlist selected in PVD and can use that to select and play the next movie?

It makes me experience PVD as "all-in-one" video files handler.

I wasn't questioning your use of PVD in this way. What you seem to mean is you don't use a file manager and therefore have no interest in using a filename better suited to that environment. But including the ID in the filename doesn't seem to contribute anything to your "all-in-one" experience—PVD would work just as well without it. So if you don't use a file manager, then there's no need for the ID in the filename. If you do use a file manager, then the ID must make movies harder to find. While it apparently doesn't matter to you, including the ID makes the files less portable (because the ID's are meaningless without your PVD database) and makes it less likely they would be compatible with other software (e.g., a media manager).

After all, we may think we're individuals, but aren't we all just some IDs in our countries databases?

Yes, a good analogy...Everyone who knows me knows me by my name (like they would know a movie by it's title), and only my government (like PVD) knows my ID. My government has secure ways of associating my identity with my ID, and uses that ID to maintain records about me in various databases. It does not require me to tattoo the ID on my forehead.

[buah]

And I hope you understand

I'm sorry if my sentence assembling mislead you to understood that way.

But why do you need that if you have the playlist selected in PVD and can use that to select and play the next movie?

Because I had more than 5k movies when I started to use PVD, and a lot of them already were in some player's playlists. But, my .pvd is at the moment 1,6GB and not even close to all of them are set to corresponding playlists in PVD, and I doubt they ever will be. So, for my older movies (with lower IDs) the only way to know which one has to be seen is to load .asx to player, to see it's title, then right to PVD to decide, than go back to player and to click play there. I don't know if I was clear enough, but I'm willing to give extra details.

Once the new multiple edit concept to be unveiled, I'll see would it be worthy to assign older movies to PVD playlists. Until then, I really need .asx files not to load after every click and play from within PVD. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but please point it to me.

But including the ID in the filename

I was very specific. Folders, not files have IDs in their names. File names consists of only titles, origtitles, year and/or source.
I do use file manager, of course. But, for movies, I use it after PVD, and in previous post I have described how. I'll repeat once again. If you have a 1000 movies on a HDD, for me it's faster and more convenient to type Naked Lunch in PVD, than to use context menu, then to open Explorer and to scroll over like 400 movies to get it. Not to tell that if HDD is unplugged (on a shelf) maybe it's not on "that HDD with those 'N's". How to locate it?  When it's 4572, it can only be on one HDD.

(because the ID's are meaningless without your PVD database)

I wouldn't agree. If you search outside PVD, that means you do search somehow:
1. By scrolling? But how do you know that Naked Lunch isn't with those Ns on a HDD on a shelf?
2. By using windows, or other search tool? Then, ID in a folder name doesn't bother you, you just type title in the search bar.

And how I make it portable? Export Id-Title-origtitle to a .txt file located on the root of a HDD. I could bet that opening txt with notepad, using ctrl+f is again more convenient, if not faster than any other search tool.

and makes it less likely they would be compatible with other software (e.g., a media manager).

Will you simulate a situation, because I'm not sure what are you talking about?

Everyone who knows me knows me by my name

No one, other than those who know you, care. Let's say you're my guest. I'm out. I know the title, you know the title, I know on which hdd it is ("on that shelf the second one starting with NA, not the first one starting with NA"), and you? But, if it's 3219 it can only be on one HDD

I mean, what is on Earth cataloged with letters?

And finally:
1. It's not about knowing the title, but about locating the title (speaking of knowing you by your name)
2. You're the "government" of your PVD, and movies are "citizens" of your "PVD country", that's why you have to know their IDs, to manipulate (sic!) and do whatever you want with them

[rick.ca]

Maybe I'm overlooking something, but please point it to me.

If I understand you correctly, the names of your .asx files are playlists, and their contents are the pathnames of the files belonging to that playlist. Without much difficulty, those .asx files can be joined together into a list of playlist names and file pathnames. That can be parsed into a Excel worksheet of Title, Year and Playlist. As you know, that is easily imported into PVD to add Playlist to the movies in your database.

Folders, not files have IDs in their names.

Yes, okay, that means there won't be some of the problems I suggested. But it doesn't change my main point—it's not necessary to record the ID in the file system. At least not in a way that makes it more difficult to deal with files by movie title. And in using a file manager, I'm obviously talking about managing the files on a HDD that's attached to the system, not those that aren't. I agree—you have to use PVD to determine which disk a movie is on. But once you've done that, you don't need the ID—the movie can just as easily be identified and located by a Title (Year) filename. And using the IDs as folder names, rather than part of the filename, makes some file management operations (especially those involving multiple files) even more difficult. In a hierarchical file system, a folder is intended for classification, not unique values.

(because the ID's are meaningless without your PVD database)

That was a statement of fact, not opinion. If I, or anyone else, were to look at one of your HDDs, we would find your ID folder names completely meaningless. Some would find the ID folder names a royal PITA because they would obscure the meaningful filenames. I wouldn't mind, because my file manager can "flatten" folders. But that illustrates the point too—because I would need to do that to get the meaningless ID's out of the way.

Let's say you're my guest. I'm out. I know the title, you know the title, I know on which hdd it is ("on that shelf the second one starting with NA, not the first one starting with NA"), and you? But, if it's 3219 it can only be on one HDD

I'm sure I'd go mad as a guest in your home, but if you insist on role playing... I tell you a title I'd like to watch. You use PVD to determine what disk it's on. Wouldn't it be easier to refer to that by disk number or name? Why a thousand different IDs to identify one disk? Once the disk is identified, there's no more need for the reference, regardless of what it is. So why bother cluttering the file pathnames with an ID?

Another scenario: I have my own notebook computer, and would like to attach one of your disks, browse what's on it, and select something to play. I would have a difficult time doing so because all I can see (all at once) are a bunch of meaningless ID folder names. I suppose I might be able to search filter to show the movie files, but that's not very convenient.

I mean, what is on Earth cataloged with letters?

Using current technology, just about anything that's easier to use when catalogued that way. Movies in PVD, for example, are catalogued very effectively (if a little care is taken to distinguish duplicates) by Title. It's commonplace for any record commonly identified by a unique name to be indexed by that name rather than a number. Most modern accounting systems, for another example, will refer to customers, vendors and employees by name. Accounts are usually referred to by a number from a "chart of accounts" because those numbers have a very specific structure and meaning (like a library catalogue number). Inventory items are usually handled both ways because the either might be preferred in different circumstances. I'm going to assume you're sorry you asked, and stop now.

And finally: 1. It's not about knowing the title, but about locating the title.

I'm not sure what this sentence means. If it's about locating the title, you must know the title you want to locate. I suppose you just mean, "It's about locating the title"—which I've understood from the beginning. It seems to me the most efficient way to do that is to record the Media Label in PVD. And isn't that done automatically when a disk is scanned? If not, it's not difficult to import from a directory listing of the disk. Surely locating a disk by it's label and a movie by it's title is much easier than using IDs to do the same thing.