Minor suggestion - Rating - > Seen

[buah]

If the movie is rated by PVD user, it is considered as seen. It would be nice to see "Seen" checkbox automatically checked while rating movie in "Rating" field. Also, it should be allowed to subsequently uncheck "Seen" checkbox, whether or not "Rating" field is filled in, i.e. in purpose to watch it again and revise given rating.

Cheers

[rick.ca]

Having some reason to add or change a rating doesn't necessarily mean the movie has been seen, so this would have to be an optional behaviour. Also, the second part of your idea is not clear. Do you want an existing rating to be reset when "seen" is changed to "unseen"?

Although this seems convenient, I would sometimes forget the seen status is being changed when I rate the movie, and then the date seen (which is important to me) would not get recorded. It would be nice to have a special dialog that would include all the things that need to be updated after a movie is viewed—date (with same options as current menu), rating, comments, the option to delete the media, etc. It would be particularly useful if it could accommodate custom fields—then it could be adapted to any particular routine/work flow.

[buah]

Do you want an existing rating to be reset when "seen" is changed to "unseen"?

Of course not.

Although this seems convenient, I would sometimes forget the seen status is being changed when I rate the movie, and then the date seen (which is important to me) would not get recorded.

I don't get this? If "Seen" is already checked (with or without seen date), it's status wouldn't change while rating, only if it's unchecked. But, if you watched a movie, and you didn't checked it as "Seen", and you didn't rate it, if you first decide to rate it you could automatically get "Seen" checked. Later you can add seen date, if you now it?

Having some reason to add or change a rating doesn't necessarily mean the movie has been seen

I couldn't figure out any reasonable reason () other than to rate seen movie. But, if you think so...

I found this option in almost any movie manager I tried, and I found it absolutely convenient.

Cheers

[rick.ca]

Of course not.

Why not? If there's any point to linking the two fields, why shouldn't work both ways? If I'm sure my rating of a movie will remain unchanged, why would I bother watching it again. While I can understand why some would prefer not to reset the rating, doing so would be perfectly sensible behaviour.

if you first decide to rate it you could automatically get "Seen" checked. Later you can add seen date, if you now it?

There are currently 43 unseen and 702 seen movies in my database. If the seen flag is set without the date, I'm unlikely to find it unless I go looking for it. And I'm not very good at remembering to look for things I don't know I've forgotten. My memory is not so bad, however, that I'd fail to recognize one movie out of 43 is one I've recently seen—but forgot to set the date. This, in fact, is how the date seen and rating get recorded in most cases. Even if I know what I'm looking for, I'm finding the recently viewed movie in my list of unseen movies, and then recording the date. The alternate feature I suggested would ensure the rating and any other information related to the viewing of the movie gets recorded at the same time.

I found this option in almost any movie manager I tried, and I found it absolutely convenient.

It never occurred to me you were suggesting something you believed to be inconvenient. But the program is used by many people, not just you. I was only pointing out "...this would have to be an optional behaviour." I do, of course, think my idea is much better. But it, too, would be optional.

[buah]

It's hard for me to speak at theoretical level on this issue, because I used such an option a lot, so I'm speaking upon experience I got. And now, I use PVD without it, and I don't mind it at all. As I emphasized, it would be convenient to have it in PVD, nothing more or less. That's why I entitled this topic "Minor..."

The idea wasn't mine, and the fact it was implemented in almost any movie manager could imply that it is used by significant number of users. Anyway, I don't mind if it would have to be even optional. That option would be checked in in my personal preferences, just like "Allow editing Rating in View mode" is, for instance.

Cheers

[rick.ca]

The idea wasn't mine, and the fact it was implemented in almost any movie manager could imply that it is used by significant number of users.

The fact most PVD users swear it's the best movie manager they've ever used is perhaps reason enough we should not try to be like the others.

But seriously... I don't care where the idea comes from. All of them are improved through open discussion. Implementing most of them involves finding a balance between competing interests and considerations. Even the addition of a minor optional feature has indirect consequences—even if just making the program a little more complicated to use due to the number of options.

I suppose some think a "Feature Suggestions" forum is like a suggestion box. This assumes, however, nostra has the time to consider all the implications of the suggested change. I don't know why he would do so if users can't be bothered to develop the idea.

[buah]

The alternate feature I suggested would ensure the rating and any other information related to the viewing of the movie gets recorded at the same time.

It is obvious to me that my suggestion was heading to this.

I always tend to look at the things "out of the box", and I don't imply anyone here does it "from within". I highlight it because to me, the very basic answer on a very basic question:

"Who will be the (first) users of a software I developed, while there were tons of it's kind out there already developed and established?"

is:

The users that already used such a software, but not the users that started to collect movies yesterday, or even worst, the users that started to watch movies yesterday, i.e. - from the scratch.

So, any subsequent question, dilemma, suggestion is an excerpt (derivation, abstract) of that basic one. Having this in mind, the very basic question for me on this issue is:

Were there, is there, or will it be more collection of movies with the "seen date" known, or with the "seen date" unknown?
The answer is obvious to me.
So,
Is it a greater chance that someone would forget to set "seen date" or to forget to set "seen..." whatever at all?
Again pretty obvious to me.
So,
Is it a bigger damage if someone miss SOME seen dates, or if someone miss some movies are seen?
Having in mind that I watched at least 5.000 movies in my life so far (yes, that's true, although it 's more likely it is 10.000, but I couldn't swear, and I have a written record that in 1992 I watched 936 movies), seen date is totally irrelevant to me comparing to "seen" flag, and the answer is again - obvious to me.
So,
Why am I a good sample, and why my opinion on this issue would be important?
Because we all increase the number of seen movies, and at some point it becomes extremely hard to remember if you watched some movie, and I have that problem, and it's likely that we all will have it.

I mean, seen date is more important to you, so you'll always start from entering data for it, than you'll likely rate it. So, it's likely you won't miss seen date. But, why not letting others to start from rating while seen date isn't that of importance to them, but seen flag is extremely important, too?

I'll try to explain this to you, and that would be my final attempt.

Why it is better to start from rating, than from "seen"?

I'll start from the opposite.
Case #1.
Today I flagged movie as seen, and forgot to rate it with 3 stars (because in these circumstances I'm forced to start from seen flag). In five years someone asks me if I watched that movie, and if I did would I recommend it to him? I can't remember if I watched it, so I open PVD, confirm that I watched it that day, five years ago ("Hey, I don't care when did you watch it, would you recommend it to me, or not?"), but can't tell "no, don't waste your time", because I don't have rating.
Case #2
Since -damus didn't implement my suggestion, I rated movie with 3 stars but forgot to flag it as seen. I can't remember if I watched it, so I open PVD. Filter-Seen-> "My friend, I didn't watch it"->"Waste your time".
Case #3
Nostra didn't implement my suggestion, but I set rating and seen flags. My friend happy he won't waste his time, nostra happy because he hadn't extra work, I'm happy made my friend happy, but - I'm not happy because had to be extremely cautious while entering data for such a large bunch of movies.
Case #4
Nostra implemented my suggestion, upon Rick's positive opinion in addition. My friend happy he won't waste his time, I'm happy made him happy, nostra and rick happy made all of us happy.

When you're dead, and you have your PVD endowed, your descendants will create an image of you based on how many movies you watched, what movies you watched, but the most, how you rated them. Not on a dates you watched them. Let me go that "far out of the box".

I don't know why he would do so if users can't be bothered to develop the idea.

Finally, I'll explain why I (will) sometimes end discussion after a couple of posts. That's because if I can't recognize joint baseline at least at the lowest level, I recognize that it'll be impossible to reconcile issue premises (maybe the most appropriate term here is - standpoint, in terms of not willing, not capable to move forward to meet the other one), no matter how great idea I had. I mean, Tesla (he was a Serbian, btw ) invented wireless transmission of electricity a hundred years ago, but J.P.Morgan as his maecenas didn't support him. And, the life is too short, so let's spend it on premises that could be reconciled, to reach as much as possible win-win combinations, so to many more of us could feel happy for as long as possible. And I mean this seriously.

Cheers

[rick.ca]

All this because I said your suggested feature should be optional? Or is it because I contradicted something you deem to be obvious? How can you possibly think my simple assertion "the date seen is important to me" is open for debate?

In your fondness for what you consider obvious, you seem to have overlooked the fact there are different kinds of collections, work flows and personal preferences. One of the characteristics that sets PVD apart from most of its competitors is that it's a powerful program that leaves a reasonable amount of room for being adapted to one's personal needs and preferences. I hope it's obvious to you I'll not be in favour of anything that diminishes that.

So to recap: Linking two fields so one changes with the other is a bad idea. Adding the option to do so would unlikely create any problems (especially if the default is 'off'), and some users would appreciate the convenience. Unfortunately, if nostra made the mistake of reading this far, he no longer has the time to implement this.

[buah]

All this because I said your suggested feature should be optional?

All that because of

I don't know why he (nostra, obj. by buah) would do so if users can't be bothered to develop the idea.

I thought it was obvious? I thought you'd appreciate that I wanted to elaborate my standpoint? And what I got is that I found that with your last post you misjudged me, and kinda offended me, too.

And I thought it was obvious that getting two fields linked via option, perfectly suits me, ditto?

Anyway, I don't mind if it would have to be even optional. That option would be checked in in my personal preferences, just like "Allow editing Rating in View mode" is, for instance.

Rick, your reactions I find sometimes really unexpected, and that confuses me a lot. Hence, I will retire for a while from corresponding with you. If you ever felt offended by me, I apologize for it, that was never my intention, and it's not my style.

Cheers

[patch]

Anyway, I don't mind if it would have to be even optional. That option would be checked in in my personal preferences, just like "Allow editing Rating in View mode" is, for instance.

These flags seam to generate a lot of controversy in pvd, both in name, intended, and desirable function.
As such increasing the configurability would be desirable, especially if any further interactions were introduced.
Maybe making the flag title configurable, and existing dependencies also would keep even more people happy.

Rick, your reactions I find sometimes really unexpected, and that confuses me a lot. Hence, I will retire for a while from corresponding with you.

It is an issue. I don't think there is a solution.

[rick.ca]

It is an issue. I don't think there is a solution.

Sure there is. Change your thinking. As you well know, I'm not inclined to tolerate those whose choose to think my purpose here is to shoot down every suggestion have.