include episodes in simple search results

[Marc]

It seems to me the best way to enter a boxset in PVD is to add the box, then include the movies as 'episodes'. This works well, but when you click for example on an actor's name, the results wont include other movies. Maybe for a future PVD version this behavior could be altered to regard episodes as movies when listing credits, doing searches, etc?

[rick.ca]

If you decide to treat movies as episodes, you have to accept the program is is going to in all ways handle them as such. This may be okay for a set of movies that are almost as closely related as are episodes (e.g., the cast is largely the same). Usually, this is not the case. See this topic.

[Marc]

Yes I saw that topic. But I was wondering if the program could be adjusted to handle the episodes in another way, treat them more like seperate movies (at least as far as the credits are concerned). Of course, the real solution would be a new feature that lets you properly catalogue box sets. I'm sure that will probably be added in the future, but in the meantime, maybe a tiny modification of the episode feature could be a temporary solution?

[Marc]

I should also mention that the way you suggested handling boxes in that topic won't work for me, as I've imported a large collection from another program so adding the box movies seperately will mess up my ID's (my ID's are numbered after purchase date, so the box could have a low ID and the box items would be high ID's - no good).

[rick.ca]

Of course, the real solution would be a new feature that lets you properly catalogue box sets.

If you want a "solution," I think this is want you should focus on and attempt to define. It's not a good idea to modify an existing feature/behaviour to accommodate a use it was never intended for. You're going to end up insisting the episodes behave like movies (e.g., in search and filtering), and I'm going to insist they behave like episodes. I think the best way to handle box sets is to have mechanism that looks similar to that for series, but really is just a means to group independent movie records into a box set. There could be grouping option to apply this, or to turn it off to "free" the individual movies. Assuming the parent record would be used to record information about the box set, what information would you expect to see there?

adding the box movies seperately will mess up my ID's

I don't understand. How do ID's impact on the handling of box sets? Why do they even need ID's?

[patch]

Of course, the real solution would be a new feature that lets you properly catalogue box sets. I'm sure that will probably be added in the future, but in the meantime, maybe a tiny modification of the episode feature could be a temporary solution?

I can see merit in your goal, not so keen on the work around.
What you are describing is a custom way of grouping movies. This is applicable for
1) The way you bought the movies - box sets etc
2) Series of related movies - Matrix, Harry potter, James Bond, etc
3) How movies are stored - rack, shelf etc

If nostra is going to spend time updating the code, aiming to a planned goal, rather than a work around would be prefered.
Perhaps we could look at ways this could all fit together in a general way.

[rick.ca]

Perhaps we could look at ways this could all fit together in a general way.

Considering we already have grouping as an effective and flexible means of dealing with many of these kinds of requirements, what exactly is the additional benefit a new general way of do this might offer? The only thing that comes to my mind is the ability to record additional information at the group level—like details about a box set. I'm not sure what might be recorded about a series of related movies. Or a shelf—although maybe a picture and/or its location on a floor plan would be cool.

Also, it seems behind such requests is a desire to put the published media ahead of it's content. One of the fundamental characteristics of PVD that sets it apart from other similar applications is that it's a movie database, not a DVD database. Many of us are not interested in recording information about DVD's or box sets. We're only interested in information about the movies (and series and other types of video) themselves. I have no problem with media specific information being provided for, but it must be secondary to the movie information itself. In other words, it should be a movie database in which specific media information (e.g., a specific DVD edition) can be recorded.

Perhaps a more general discussion we need to have is about to better accommodate those who do want to record information specific to the particular media they own. Since the application is built on a relational database, the obvious (but theoretical) solution is to completely separate movie and media information, and relate them. Then it would be possible to have one movie record linked to multiple DVD editions and/or a box set. Or multiple movies linked to rips burned to one DVD. This, however, would be a significant architectural change for something there may not be much demand for.

In the meantime, I think the best way to handle movies series and box sets is using the grouping feature. If it's necessary to record information about the entire series or box set, a dummy record (named so it appears first in the list) can be created for this purpose.

[patch]

Also, it seems behind such requests is a desire to put the published media ahead of it's content. One of the fundamental characteristics of PVD that sets it apart from other similar applications is that it's a movie database, not a DVD database. Many of us are not interested in recording information about DVD's or box sets. We're only interested in information about the movies (and series and other types of video) themselves.

Rick take care. We realize you use PVD a specific way, however yours is not the only way.

Back on topic.
Much of the capability required for this type of grouping could probably be achieved via custom fields with tree view display. The issue with this approach would be where movies not in such series are sorted.

It would be nice to be able to enter the movie series name when it is in a series. Then display movies by name or with movie series grouped. With movies not in a series, sorting by movie name instead would be appropriate. The existing episode series capability to show only series is also nice. To achieve this a custom movie series field, which could be displayed in tree view, and with a default sorting value if blank configurable to be "title" or "original title" would be good.
I modify the title to achieve similar grouping but clearly that is not as flexible and does not provide any addition series specific fields, although I do not need any.
Rick I thought you used another field for similar grouping.

With movies grouping by unit purchased ie box set, similar grouping options would be appropriate except the series the user entered would be say "Matrix 1,2,3 box set". Again movies not in boxes / series should display as movie title. 
With this approach I have added no additional fields for box set information. I'm interested in what if any information of this type other would require (I don't need any).

For movies filed by box / shelf / folder. Then the default value should be the next in the current series. I'm guessing a user defined prefix and start counter with PVD incrementing the counter with each movie added would be the sort of thing most users would want. Note this is similar to the existing capability except I have added a user defined prefix. I store my movies on hard disc so will need to defer to those with a larger physical library for guidance here.

[rick.ca]

Rick take care. We realize you use PVD a specific way, however yours is not the only way.

Please do stay on topic. This is uncalled for and inappropriate in a civil discussion about how a software application should work. It's a simple fact PVD is designed as a movie database. If you want to argue it should be turned into a DVD database, go ahead. I believe it would be more productive to discuss how it might better handle media-specific information without throwing it's fundamental design premise out the window.

It would be nice to be able to enter the movie series name when it is in a series. Then display movies by name or with movie series grouped. With movies not in a series, sorting by movie name instead would be appropriate...

In other words, you want movie titles and series to be listed together alphabetically. I suppose this might work for those who want to adopt this as their primary "view" of their collection (like those presently inclined to record movies as episodes). It seems rather rigid, however, in comparison to grouping. When I group my movies by series, it's because I want to see them as series (e.g., in most cases, it's appropriate and informative to sort them by year). I'm generally not interested in movies that are not members of a series at this time. They are, however, still there (in the "undefined" group) should I want to do something like show movies of a particular director. When done, I revert to plain view.

With movies grouping by unit purchased ie box set, similar grouping options would be appropriate except the series the user entered would be say "Matrix 1,2,3 box set".

Since the series name has to be entered by the user, it can be whatever the user wants it to be. I dedicate just one field for "Movie series," and use it for a number of different grouping purposes. Most are for what most would consider to be movie series, but it's also used for other purposes. The existing grouping feature works very well in temporarily providing an alternate view of my collection, but what you're describing sounds too rigid.

Let's not forget this thing is built on a relational database. With its ability to group, sort, filter and search, just about any presentation can be achieved. Maybe some general enhancements can be made, like adding the ability to record information on group nodes. But it shouldn't be necessary to argue for hard-coded changes to accommodate individual user preferences. I think we'd all be better served by new features that help make the full power of the program and the database more accessible and easier to use. By that I mean things like saved grouping, filter and (advanced) search settings—so users can configure the presentation of their collection to their heart's content, and recall any saved configuration instantly.

[Marc]

Hmm, it seems I have misunderstood the purpose of Personal Video Database. My intent is to use it as a DVD (and Blu-ray) database, but if it's not really meant to accomodate such intentions maybe I should be looking for something that will suit my needs better. Although it is call VIDEO database, not movie database, so that's confusing.

Anyway, my idea of a box set feature looks the same and works the same as episodes work: you enter a new movie which is the DVD box set (so it's not a new movie you enter, but a DVD), and then you add the movies that the box contains in the same way as you would add episodes. The difference being that the box is just a group name, and the movies behave just like regular movies (in searches and such).

I hope I'm explaining well enough, because English is not my first language.

I don't understand. How do ID's impact on the handling of box sets? Why do they even need ID's?

In my case they need ID's because that's how my collection is ordered: I entered every movie based on the date of purchase, so old movies have a low number, new movies a high one. Since I can't sort the collection by purchase date (this is a custom field), I rely on the ID's. Hence your solution doesn't work for me.

[patch]

Hmm, it seems I have misunderstood the purpose of Personal Video Database. My intent is to use it as a DVD (and Blu-ray) database,

Different people use it different ways. I believe others with similar need have found it suitable.

Anyway, my idea of a box set feature looks the same and works the same as episodes work: you enter a new movie which is the DVD box set (so it's not a new movie you enter, but a DVD), and then you add the movies that the box contains in the same way as you would add episodes. The difference being that the box is just a group name, and the movies behave just like regular movies (in searches and such).

You can use it this way but it is not really how it was intended to be used, which is why you are finding it doesn't quite behave as expected. Series is designed for TV shows which have a defined structure coded so as to link data source & internal database. It is hard enough to get it working without trying to make it do more again.

I agree the structure looks tempting though.
Have you tried editing the title (not original title) to reflect the box it comes from. If you prefix the title by the box description, box content will appear together when sorted by title (you just loose the collapsing list). It is how I solve the problem in my database.

In my case they need ID's because that's how my collection is ordered: I entered every movie based on the date of purchase, so old movies have a low number, new movies a high one. Since I can't sort the collection by purchase date (this is a custom field), I rely on the ID's. Hence your solution doesn't work for me.

Have you tried the date added sorted display.

[Marc]

Have you tried editing the title (not original title) to reflect the box it comes from. If you prefix the title by the box description, box content will appear together when sorted by title (you just loose the collapsing list). It is how I solve the problem in my database.

In my case they need ID's because that's how my collection is ordered: I entered every movie based on the date of purchase, so old movies have a low number, new movies a high one. Since I can't sort the collection by purchase date (this is a custom field), I rely on the ID's. Hence your solution doesn't work for me.

Have you tried the date added sorted display.

Both of these suggestions are problematic for me. I prefer to sort my titles by ID (which in my case corresponds the purchase date), so ordering by titles is not ideal, even if it would solve my box problem.

Plus, having imported my collection from another program, the 'date added' is the same for all titles. Maybe I can re-import the collection and port my 'purchase date' over to the 'date added' field?

[rick.ca]

Hmm, it seems I have misunderstood the purpose of Personal Video Database. My intent is to use it as a DVD (and Blu-ray) database...

The brilliance of the design is that it's based on something everyone is interested in and which will not change—the movie itself. For many movies, the media will be published in a multitude of different editions, all of which will become obsolete. In the not-too-distant future, the Internet will be the most common delivery method, and there will be no media.

Anyway, my idea of a box set feature looks the same and works the same as episodes work...

And that's fine in that it doesn't involve changing the existing handling of series. It would be more flexible and therefore appealing to more users if it could be applied or not—as with grouping.

Since I can't sort the collection by purchase date (this is a custom field), I rely on the ID's.

If you want to sort by purchase date, sort by purchase date! If there's a reason you can't use Date added for purchase date, then you have to use a custom field. Since there are no date-type custom fields, this would have to be a short text field in which the date is stored as YYYY-MM-DD. The custom field will be included in the sort menu.

Plus, having imported my collection from another program, the 'date added' is the same for all titles. Maybe I can re-import the collection and port my 'purchase date' over to the 'date added' field?

You can export Purchase date, convert it to a string in the form YYY-MM-DD and re-import it as Date added. Consider using the two fields, however. You may want to add movies before purchasing them (e.g., wish list) or without ever purchasing them (e.g., members of a movie series you don't want to own, but want to record so as to have a complete record of the series).

[nostra]

Personal Video Database is really coded with movies in mind, not media movies are released on. I am sure it is the best way to go, so I will not change this basic concept of the program. PVD is still flexible enough to handle media based collections in most cases, IMHO. Nevertheless, I have some users here and a couple of users on the Russian forum as well as some email requests to support such things like:
1. Season records
2. Box sets
3. Multiple movies on one DVD / BD
4. Group records

I am investigating the possibilities to solve these problems and will certainly improve the application in this regard when I find some  good solutions. Improved grouping (as Rick said) does really seems to be the best solution at this time.

[patch]

Both of these suggestions are problematic for me. I prefer to sort my titles by ID (which in my case corresponds the purchase date), so ordering by titles is not ideal, even if it would solve my box problem.

If ID was enhanced to support a suffix or decimal values, would that solve your problem? Basically this would give you the ability to manually add movies between existing movies in your series.

More generally adding a user defined prefix & suffix (then sort on the 3 fields in turn) maybe a general solution to this problem allowing support multiple shelves of discs & later addition between existing records.

Plus, having imported my collection from another program, the 'date added' is the same for all titles. Maybe I can re-import the collection and port my 'purchase date' over to the 'date added' field?

Could well be the best solution for you depending on how much manual work you have done on your PVD database.